Laesch-Foster Thoughts Revised - Factors In The Race

by: WurfWhile

Wed Feb 06, 2008 at 21:07:50 PM CST


(Cross-posted at WurfWhile.com)

Punditry has its limits.  You try to learn as much as you can about an issue, look for patterns and trends, and then tell a story stringing together the facts you've gathered.  You tell a story because you're trying to make a point, and people remember and respond well to stories.  From our distant past reliance on oral tradition to spread knowledge, to growing up as children listening to our parents read, to grabbing a great book, watching a movie, or telling a story ourselves - stories are how we understand and learn.  But stories involve generalizations.  We'll never know what was in the head of each voter casting a ballot in yesterday's Illinois 14th Congressional Democratic Primary.  Some voters may have researched every issue they cared about and voted certain of their choice.  Others may have randomly grabbed a leaflet and liked what it said about the candidate.  Some may have liked a candidates' name because it reminded them of their uncle.  Others may have employed the childhood decision game "Eenie meanie minie moe."  bored now has written "campaigns are won by money, message, management and mobilization."  That's no doubt true - but one would be foolish not to include 'chance, luck, or opportunity' - Machiavelli, no slouch in things strategic, figured "Fortuna" amounted to half of what happens in human affairs.  That sounds about right to me.

What are some factors that would seem to explain a lot of what happened Tuesday?

WurfWhile :: Laesch-Foster Thoughts Revised - Factors In The Race
Clearly there was tremendous turnout - a likely record for a Democratic Primary in the 14th District.  The Daily Herald reports today:

"In Kane County, Clerk Jack Cunningham said some precincts showed twice as many Democratic voters as before - which he attributed to the Clinton/Obama race, the 14th congressional seat and two new judicial subcircuits.

Cunningham estimated turnout could be 80,000 [voters]....  As well, more than 10,000 early ballots were cast in Kane County, up from 3,000 in last year's local elections."

For the history of Kane County Primary voting see this - and also see what ArchPundit wrote about early primary voting this election.  Kane County is only one county in the 14th - I use it as an example - but in general district voting numbers were up.

While the numbers may have overwhelmed and negated the reach of Bill Foster's mailings and cable TV ads, it also must have posed a challenge to everyone's mobilization efforts.  People off the radar were voting in the Democratic primary, including people who might normally take Republican ballots (and see here).  Overall this likely hurt Foster more than John Laesch because paradoxically in a campaign where money was often brought up as an issue, high turnout likely negated some money effects.  

Ballot position may also have played a role.  I'm not an expert in this and the amount of "primacy effect" (i.e. bias towards the first person on the ballot) seems to be contested and variable - but as much as a 10% vote count bonus effect is claimed in some circumstances and up to 2% seems a much more commonly cited number.  Low information seems to increase the effect.  In this primary election a lot of people who don't normally vote in primaries cast votes - many likely driven by the competitive presidential race - suggesting that John Laesch may have benefited from being first on the primary ballot (where Bill was third).  Compare John's total where he was first on the ballot in the primary (31,587) with his numbers in the special election where he was second (28,053).  Bill, of course, presumably may have benefited from being first on the special election where he got 31,792, compared to 31,910 in the regular primary - but most people probably filled the general primary ballot first - so they had already made the choice in a scenario that benefited John by the time they got to the special election.  You would expect a bit of a drop off in the special election for both candidates just because it was unusual, and in some cases required a separate effort to cast a vote (i.e. requesting another paper ballot).  

Name recognition may also have factored in the totals.  A lot of people, including me, were under the impression that polling suggested low name recognition for John despite his candidacy in 2006 - but we (and perhaps the polls) may have been wrong.

Other factors no doubt played a role - including effective efforts by the Laesch Campaign - but what I've written above attempts to explain some of the non-Laesch effort effects.  The reason for explaining the 'non-Laesch effort' is that when I look back at my criticisms of the Laesch campaign I'm hard pressed to think any of them wrong based on what I know today.  As I've said before, I believe in public financing of campaigns and campaign finance reform - but my beliefs are not today's reality.  In the real world John Laesch's Congressional Campaign could be significantly outspent running for an Illinois state senate in a much smaller district than the 14th Congressional.  While I may have completely misjudged it, I also didn't see evidence of a huge, local grassroots groundswell for John.  It wasn't evident online, where John and his campaign spent significant time (see for example the number of views his videos got here).  It wasn't evident in the number of signatures John got for the special election in a single week (1,700) - which was less, but close to Bill Foster's number (1,832), and only half of Chris Lauzen's total (3,400).  John also was the last candidate in the race (with the exception of Joe Serra) - and thus the last to start campaigning and connecting with voters this cycle.  Just because I couldn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen - but I think my skepticism justified of a huge movement that didn't show up in huge numbers for events I saw or read about, didn't sign petitions, didn't donate and didn't even passively view video clips online.

Throughout the campaign I indicated I thought John Laesch had improved considerably over his run in 2006.  I still believe that is true.  No doubt that translated into votes.  How many? No idea.  As for the rest? It could have been luck.

Tags: , , , , , , (All Tags)
Print Friendly View Send As Email
if only i could predict luck... (0.00 / 0)
i could factor it in.  alas, i cannot.  we control what we can, and leave the rest to the gods...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

btw... (0.00 / 0)
john sears gets credit for telling me that money, message, management and mobilization were the keys to winning elections...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

[ Parent ]
Since you have been arguing that John had none of these... (0.00 / 0)
... then it simply must be luck, because how could someone like you possibly be wrong?

Omnes vulnerant, postuma necat

[ Parent ]
strawman argument... (0.00 / 0)
feel free to show where i've argued that laesch "had none of these."  let's stick to what i've actually said instead of what y'all imagine or contrive that i've said, please...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

[ Parent ]
Y'all? (0.00 / 0)
Sorry, I'm not a committee.  I'm also not a Laesch volunteer or a member of his campaign.

You said he has no money many times.  You said just this morning that he had no message.  You said yesterday and maybe this morning that he had no management.  And if he has not management, doesn't it follow that he had no mobilization?  So what am I missing, Mr Science?

Omnes vulnerant, postuma necat


[ Parent ]
it's a south'rn term... (0.00 / 0)
laesch didn't raise enough money to effectively communicate his message.  i don't recall saying that he had "no message," which is why i asked that you show me where i said that.  you'll understand, of course, given how you keep expecting me to defend things i don't say, how i'd like to confirm exactly what i did say.  i don't believe i said he had no management; i have repeatedly noted the lack of professional campaign management, and what i suspect is a confused decision structure.  but none?  don't recall saying none.  and, no, i don't see how that follows.  given that i've written repeatedly about strategic corporals, i can't see how you'd even say that.

i'll be happy to answer to what i did say...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting


[ Parent ]
Okay, you said "opaque" message. (0.00 / 0)
I suppose that technically an opaque message is still a message.  But I think that your point is that Laesch failed on message, money, management and mobilization.  Still, he got half the vote.  So either he didn't fail on these four things and your analysis is wrong or there is something else (and you can call it "luck", but then you couldn't be Mr Science any more) and you haven't picked it up, which means that your analysis is flawed.

The thrust of everything I have been saying is this.  Your analysis is clouded by your personal dislike of Laesch, which then goes on to inform your analysis.  You are not objective.  Saying that you are not objective is not the same as saying that you are never right.  (See, I can spin a phrase just as good as you can.)  And no big deal; Laesch probably doesn't like you very much either.  But you can't say that Laesch's supporters are irrational because they don't always accept your remarks.  

You don't seem to know very much about how Laesch's campaign is organized.  You can say that this is because no one has told you.  But you have been making remarks that imply that you do know.  Not very scientific of you to do this.  The corporals may have carried the thing along. Or maybe, his campaign is more well organized than you thought.  The thing is, you can say that a loss by one vote is still a loss or you didn't think too much about the margin or whatever.  But the fact is, the result is not what one would have predicted by your remarks on the race.  

The thing about all of this is that Foster needs something that Laesch has.  You have put yourself out of the position to know what this is (get out of state Democratic activists in to help Foster now?  Please.)  I'm sure that you will continue to speculate, popping back and forth on your theories (did I see you in one day say on one hand that Laesch's performance was the result of the regular Democratic organization on one hand and then in another post say that Laesch was only endorsed by 10 percent of the committeemen?)  But if we want to knock out Mr Ice Cream in a month, we need to figure out what both sides did right and marry the two.  And don't give me any "Laesch's people are crybabies" shit.  That kind of talk is just your slip showing again.

By the way, y'all is short for "you all" which is used in the South.  It's an archaic plural form of "you" and Southerners only use it when talking to more than one person.  

Omnes vulnerant, postuma necat


[ Parent ]
no, no, no... (0.00 / 0)
"I think that your point is that Laesch failed on message, money, management and mobilization."

my point is that laesch lost (barring something "shocking").  we can say, unambiguously, that laesch failed at fund-raising.  i'd certainly say that the laesch campaign failed to have the kind of management a congressional campaign should have.  but just because he lost doesn't mean that he had to fail on all four of the factors that decide elections (using the sears standard).  i have no idea why you think that this is the case (other than to be argumentative).

if you think one necessitates the other, feel free to explain why!

i have no personal opinion of laesch whatsoever.  i understand that you need me to have one so you can explain to yourself why i would hold one candidate to the same standard that i hold every other candidate (and campaign) to.  but you would be wrong.  that's your problem...  

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting


[ Parent ]
You said... (0.00 / 0)
that his message was opaque and that his management was fatally flawed.  Yes, you didn't literally say that he "failed on message" and he "failed on management".  But if one's message is opaque, and message is very important, then one has failed on message, no?  And if one's management is fatally flawed (your words) one has failed in management, no?  And you said that it was the regular Party organization that gave him the votes that he got (and not his own organization?  Or were you saying that Laesch was run by the regular Party organization?)  Who moblizes the Party organization?  So in fact, you don't say that he failed at all four.  You only attack his handling on all four and then claim that you didn't mean that he failed.      

As for your personal opinion, you have claimed that Laesch has a rotten work ethic (I seem to remember that you used the word lazy too) and that he is arrogant.  Are those "objective" statements?  Now in fact you don't seem to know what is going on in Laesch's organization (or Foster's for that matter) so how are you able to make these kinds of comments?  Where are they coming from?  Because these are character comments.  And yes, you are holding Laesch to a different standard because youa are not making these kinds of comments about the other candidates.  And yet you know no more about them then you do about Laesch.

Straw man?  I think in fact you are just a coward who likes to imply things until someone pushes back.

 

Omnes vulnerant, postuma necat


[ Parent ]
no and no... (0.00 / 0)
the biggest surprise to me was how much of the local democratic establishment was tied to laesch's campaign.  part of that was because dt oversold this.  but the numbers show the truth in that.  you'll have to decide for yourself what it means, as i don't particularly care.  it just is.

i never attacked laesch's "handling on all four" and i've not a clue how you jumped to that conclusion.  your legs must be getting tired, though.

i have said repeatedly that laesch didn't do the job of the candidate.  i can't recall saying that he had a rotten work ethic, so feel free to show where i did.  i don't recall saying lazy, either, but i think you are just confused.  i'd be shocked if i called laesch arrogant, but i'd hardly call that an accusation.  so, let's recap: you don't think i'm objective because you accuse me of feelings i don't have and things i didn't say.  that's quite a feat!

feel free to "push back" on what i actually say...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting


[ Parent ]
Yes, yes, yes. (0.00 / 0)
"i never attacked laesch's "handling on all four" and i've not a clue how you jumped to that conclusion.  your legs must be getting tired, though."

You've attacked each one separately, but yes, you never posted diary attacking them all together.  I guess that let's you off the hook.

It doesn't matter.  You have commented on the efficacy of all of the candidates well beyond their fund raising.  But what I didn't know until you said so today is that you didn't really know anything about any of them in terms of their actual organizations. You don't know if there are any pros on Foster's staff, or who they are or what they did.  Ditto for Laesch. You talk about campaigns as such but you don't really know what's going on on the ground.  You're just trading on your reputation.

You may be a good technician.  But get past that and you are like a turtle out of its shell.  You throw out a few stats and a few technical comments and mix in your frankly mediocre personal opinions and try to pass it off as some objective observations by a seasoned analyst.  You may be a seasoned analyst.  But you look like you've gotten pretty lazy.

 

Omnes vulnerant, postuma necat


[ Parent ]
cie la vie... (0.00 / 0)
you seem to be wanting something that i never claimed -- that i understood the intricacies of all the campaigns.  we had that same discussion last cycle.  i've left it for others to give the kind of insider perspective that you prefer.  i'm only using the fundamentals to put the various campaigns in perspective.  i've never claimed otherwise.  as you said, all of this is available elsewhere (it can be independently verified!).  ahhhh, the scientific method...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

[ Parent ]
ballot position (4.00 / 1)
helped Foster - I was in over 15 polling places on election day and how every single one operated, except one that did not have special election ballots, they gave the person a pink sheet and a white sheet to fill out. Every person was given a regular and a special election ballot.
Ballot position may also have played a role.  I'm not an expert in this and the amount of "primacy effect" (i.e. bias towards the first person on the ballot) seems to be contested and variable - but as much as a 10% vote count bonus effect is claimed in some circumstances and up to 2% seems a much more commonly cited number.

Foster may have had the same results on the second ballot when a voter was confronted with a ballot they did not ask for. When I asked the election judges if everyone got a special election ballot they said only a few, 3 or so, per precinct refused. Two precincts were confused about issuing ballots for different parties and in fact refused to do so for several voters earlier in the day and then were urged to get the official position on this and were told that in fact voters could mix parties.

[ Parent ]
I don't understand your point (0.00 / 0)
How did ballot position help Foster? On the primary ballot he was third, not first (the best position occupied by John Laesch) or last (probably the next best) - how did that help him? Foster was first on the special election ballot - but how many people were likely to view that first? In the case of electronic voting my guess is virtually nobody - and in the case of paper ballots I'd guess (and I grant it is a guess) that most people did the normal primary first.  I'm also guessing that almost everyone got a primary ballot, while some did not get a special election ballot (by your own observation).  So in short, I don't get the point.

[ Parent ]
I don't think too much about the ballot position thing. (0.00 / 0)
But in the Kane County touch screens, the special came up first.

Omnes vulnerant, postuma necat

[ Parent ]
I stand corrected then on Kane - was it true for the other counties? (0.00 / 0)
I wasn't aware that the special election came up first in the electronic voting - if that's true then obviously that would have worked for Bill as opposed to John.  I've been told that the prevalence of electronic vs. paper ballots varied by county - so the voting would vary as well.

Given the new information I don't have enough info to make a judgment as to who was positioned to gain the most.

Thank you for the information unagidon


[ Parent ]
higher ballot positions return more votes... (0.00 / 0)
and there's some thought that being first garners a small percentage of more votes just by being first.  this theory exists without testing (that i know of)...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

[ Parent ]
this has been studied (0.00 / 0)
I don't claim either to have expertise in this area or to have read through the studies, etc. - but there have been studies - see here for one example (and I have no idea if it's the best, the worst, typical or not of the research).

[ Parent ]
that's precisely the kind of testing... (0.00 / 0)
i was looking for.  thanks...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

[ Parent ]
"campaigns are won by.... (0.00 / 0)
...money, message, management and mobilization"

But not in that order.
 


yep... (0.00 / 0)
the "order," as you put it, was determined by what slipped best off my tongue.  i was going for memorable, not hierarchical...

"We have a lot of kids on the ground acting like adults and we have a lot of adults in this room acting like kids," President Obama told his advisors about all the infighting

[ Parent ]
you misjudged it (1.67 / 3)
While I may have completely misjudged it, I also didn't see evidence of a huge, local grassroots groundswell for John.

Just sit with Democrat leaning folks at some of the debates.  Their hearts with John, and their brains were telling them Foster; because of his money.  

Everyone would wince at Foster's remarks and fumblings and then the final word would be someone saying yeah but he's got the money followed by silence.


Democratic leaning (0.00 / 0)
Please don't use Republican slurs here.

Jeff Wegerson

[ Parent ]
Prairie State Blue
Front Page - Back Page


Menu

Make a New Account

Username:

Password:



Forget your username or password?


0 User(s) logged on.
Search




Advanced Search


Misc
View
Powered by: SoapBlox