The Other Side of Solar

by: yinn

Sat Dec 22, 2007 at 11:05:34 AM CST


I don't know about you, but the term "solar energy" has usually made me think about photovoltaics, in which light from the sun is converted into electrical energy. No more. This week I was browsing Bill Foster's energy policy paper and read the term "thermo-solar energy" for the first time. Also called solar thermal energy, this technology is about using the sun's heat for generating electricity.

The problem is, if you're only using the light, you can store electricity up to a point but you can't generate it when it's overly overcast or dark. Also, it can be more expensive to generate electricity from photovoltaic than from other sources. Unlike light, heat can be stored for power generation during times the sun is sleeping, rendering it more reliable and cost-effective.  

yinn :: The Other Side of Solar
  power tower    solar dish   fresnel reflector
Photo source: Wikipedia

At least four technologies have been developed when it comes to collecting the solar heat, including one hybrid that uses supplementary natural gas.  Trough, power tower, dish and Fresnel reflector systems all show promise in themselves, but the latest breakthrough is in using molten salt to receive and store the heat energy.

The molten salt is a mixture of 60 percent sodium nitrate and 40 percent potassium-nitrate, commonly called saltpeter. The salt melts at 430 F and is kept liquid at 550 F in an insulated cold storage tank. The salt is them [sic] pumped to the top of the tower, where concentrated sunlight heats it in a receiver to 1050 F. The receiver is a series of thin-walled stainless steel tubes. The heated salt [sic] then flow back down to a second insulated hot storage tank. The size of this tank depends on the requirements of the utility; tanks can be designed with enough capacity to power a turbine from two to twelve hours. When electricity is needed from the plant, the hot salt is pumped to a conventional steam-generating system to produce superheated steam for a turbine/generator.

The uniqueness of this solar system [heh!] is in de-coupling the collection of solar energy from producing power, electricity can be generated in periods of inclement weather or even at night using the stored thermal energy in the hot salt tank. The tanks are well insulated and can store energy for up to a week.

Harnessing solar thermal energy is not a new idea. It was first used for heating water and a practical commercial model was patented in 1891.

In 1897, nearly 30% of the houses in Pasadena, California had solar water heaters. Solar thermal energy became popular again during the 1970's when the oil crisis occurred. Unlike photovoltaics, which have resembled the stock markets in boom and bust, the solar thermal industry has been slowly growing since the 1970's. Although solar thermal energy is mostly used for heating water, it can also be used to turn water into steam and produce electricity. First appearing in the early 1980's, currently 400 peak megawatts of solar thermal electricity are available in the United States.

As noted in our story about Henry Ford and vegetable-based fuels and plastics, cheap and widely-available petroleum suppressed interest in developing solar energy technologies for many years. This is changing now that energy costs are more volatile. Among the latest developments:

  • An Israeli company has been contracted to build the world's largest (553mW) solar power plant in the Mojave desert.

  • The first U.S. plant to manufacture solar thermal systems will begin production April 2008 in Nevada.

  • "Developing the Huge Solar Thermal Potential" is the theme for next year's  European Solar Thermal Technology Platform meeting in Brussels in January.
  • Side note: It would seem that presidential hopeful Bill Richardson was ahead of the curve in this area.

    (Posted also at http://www.citybarbs.com.)

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    New to me (0.00 / 0)
    ...to you, too?

    Hardly! (0.00 / 0)
    I've been hearing about solar thermal for at least 30 years, since the time of the second oil price crisis if not the first.

    What you say about overcast days is exactly the opposite of what I've always heard, though. An overcast day, so I'm told, cuts the amount of heat from the sun far more than it cust the amount of light. Which is why you need sunscreen even on overcast days.

    The choice between storing generated electricity and storing heat is essentially economic and may depend on the ultimate use of the energy. If you're looking to heat your house, then storing the energy as heat makes perfect sense. Don't get electricity involved at all. If you're ultimately going to want electricity, then generating and storing the electricity probably makes sense -- although that's not a hard-and-fast rule.

    I might also point out that heat exchangers, which operate on the difference between ground and air temperature, are another way to utilize solar heat.

    Bill Thomasson

    Bill Thomasson

    Permission to reprint explicitly granted


    [ Parent ]
    I figured (0.00 / 0)
    I figured if anyone knew a lot about this, it would be you!

    [ Parent ]
    I didn't mean to say that. (0.00 / 0)
    I've made a small edit to make it clearer that the stored heat is used for power generation during times that heat can't be collected; i.e. overcast days or night.

    Also, I see what you mean that in using the sun's heat to heat your house, as in passive solar applications, it would be an unnecessary step to convert to electricity first. That's probably why they are building these plants in deserts where the main utility cost is in cooling, not heating.


    [ Parent ]
    Overcast (0.00 / 0)
    Overcast days interfere with visible light.
    It interferes much less with ultraviolet light, which is what causes sunburn.
    So you should use sunblock (or clothes) on overcast days.
    What it does to infrared light, which is the source of a lot of the heat, I don't know. ("A lot" of the heat since UV and visible light are both sources of energy; when they are absorbed by X, they heat X up.)

    [ Parent ]
    Clouds block IR very effectively (0.00 / 0)
    That's why they contribute to the greenhouse effect -- they block the IR that the Earth would otherwise radiate back into space.

    You can get an idea of how daytime overcast affects the energy balance just by comparing the temperature on an overcast day with that on a sunny day. OTOH, nighttime overcast keeps the temperature higher by blocking heat loss. "Insulating the Earth," if you will.

    Bill Thomasson

    Permission to reprint explicitly granted


    [ Parent ]
    Solar and heat (0.00 / 0)
    Most of our sources of heat -- flames or electrical resistance -- are concentrated in one spot. We need the heat well distributed, though. So, we have an elaboarate system, pipes & radiators, to distribute the heat.
    Solar power is distributed as it comes. To use it for industrial purposes, melting metal e.g., it needs to be concentrated by mirrors.
    Using solar power for heat -- beyond what we have always done naturally -- sometimes gets planned in terms of first concentrating it like we do for industrial power and then distributing it like we do with steam heat.
    There are simpler methods.

    What a tease! (0.00 / 0)
    First you tantalize me with off-the-grid fantasies, then refuse to satisfy me with details.

    [ Parent ]
    "Conservation" (0.00 / 0)
    How you use solar heat more efficiently without concentrating it is called "conservation." Somoetimes, it's called "insulation."
    There was a local guy in the 50s building houses without furnaces. He built underground. He guaranteed that he would install a furnace for free if any customer was too cold in the winter; he never had to fulfill that guarantee. Indeed, the complaint in Janurary was that his houses were too hot.

    [ Parent ]
    Yes and no (0.00 / 0)
    If you build underground you are in part calling on the heat that was stored in the ground during the summer. That's what I was referring to in connection with heat exchangers. Solar energy in a way, although not in the usual sense.

    But what you're mostly doing with insulation of any sort is keeping the energy generated inside the hourse where you want it rather than letting it flow outside. Aside from whatever actual heating you do, that includes the heat used for cooking and water heating. And, to a small extent, our own bodies' metabolism. Not really solar unless you've set up the house to let a lot of sunshine in. And it's hard to combine a lot of windows with good overall insulation.

    Bill Thomasson

    Permission to reprint explicitly granted


    [ Parent ]
    Living underground? (0.00 / 0)
    There's a house a few miles away from mine that is basically just a basement. There is very little of the structure sticking above ground. The family who lives there doesn't worry about tornadoes, they seem very cozy and enjoy the unusual setup. But unusual it is. Has the idea not caught on because of the era of cheap energy, or does living underground just not have much popular appeal?

    Living near a floodplain and requiring windows, I am enamored of some alternative housing ideas such as the Earthships, which use earth rammed into used tires. They build a bank of windows on the southerly side, both for heat and for growing food, and most of the bugs (e.g., countertops getting hot enough to cook on) have been worked out.

    But what about the structures that already exist? Am I supposed to level my home and start over? How do I afford all the retrofits required? Although your "simpler methods" are helpful, they can only take the average homeowner so far. That's why I think we should NOT reject the concentration and distribution model for the foreseeable future. Make the energy clean first, then transform the housing industry.


    [ Parent ]
    use hydrogen (0.00 / 0)
    like you said, the problem with most alternative energy sources, like wind and solar, is that they are not necessarily available when you need them.  and storing that energy isnt very efficient in the form of electricity in batteries.  the trick to solving this problem is finding a better way to store massive amounts of the energy when it is produced for use when its needed without wasting any of it, using hydrogen.

    "free" hydrogen can pretty easily be combined with oxygen in the air to create energy and water. the problem is that there is no "free" hydrogen floating around because it so readily combines with other molecules.  but electricity can be used to easily break down water into "free" hydrogen and oxygen.  then you store that "free" hydrogen in tanks in a system connected to the grid.  when more electricity is needed in the grid, the system combines the "free" hydrogen with oxygen to produce the requested electricity and water as the only byproduct.

    we need to proceed full speed ahead with these types of systems.  while hydrogen storage isnt perfect for transportation due to weight and safety concerns, there is no reason not to make large systems like this placed between alternative sources and the grid.

    William J Maggos


    glad to have posted (0.00 / 0)
    on this topic. So many knowledgeable people here, I am learning a lot.

    [ Parent ]
    Tanks? (0.00 / 0)
    There's a couple of problems trying to store hydrogen in metal tanks. One is that because the H2 molecule is so small it actually diffused through metal. Not instantly, but enough so that the losses are significant. The other is that hydrogen makes metals brittle. Not good from several perspectives.

    Metal hydrides are a better storage option. And the weight that is such a problem in transportan doesn't matter for stationary applications. But I'm not sure the efficiency is much greater than an electric storage battery.

    Bill Thomasson

    Bill Thomasson

    Permission to reprint explicitly granted


    [ Parent ]
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