IL-14: Sending a Scientist to Congress - For Change

by: bored now

Sun Dec 16, 2007 at 19:53:03 PM CST


You Don't Have to be a Rocket Scientist to Run for Congress -- But It Can't Hurt

former senator warren rudman famously said that there are three kinds of senators: about a third of the senate know why they are there, know what they want to do and understand how to accomplish it.  another third, he opined, know why they are there, know what they want to accomplish, but are clueless to how to do it.  and the final third, he generously noted, may not even know why they are in congress.  and they wouldn't know what they wanted to do or how to accomplish it, if they did.  the same thing, it seems to me, can be said of the house.

which brings me to bill foster.  bill foster is a physicist.  physicists like to understand how things work.  that's what physics is, describing how the world works.  physicists understand systems -- even systems where humans are the primary components.  which is a good thing, if you want to see people in congress who are capable of accomplishing something.  this was all made clear when bill foster sat down with a group of bloggers on saturday to talk about his run for congress.

simply put, bill foster isn't your typical politician.  good politicians know that voters are lazy (aka stupid).  they want quick, simple answers to their questions, answers that they can put up on the right self in their mental cupboard.  voters trust (for the most part) politicians to find the answers, they even hope that the answers politicians find are the right answers, but they don't necessarily want to know about the dirty work involved.  'just get it done,' is the message that uninformed voters send to the politicians they elect.  'we don't need to know how you do it,' is the undercurrent to that message.

you won't get that with bill foster.

bored now :: IL-14: Sending a Scientist to Congress - For Change

you put bill foster in a room of smart people and he quietly commands respect.  he makes his points, and it's clear he's thought through the things he's being asked about.  there's no "i have a five point plan" silliness.  he doesn't overpower you or force you to listen.  foster looks at public policy like most people look at a rubic's cube.  he's not just thinking short term, but long term and about all the possible consequences.  like any physicist, foster wants to understand how the world works -- not how we'd like it to work, or how some ideology says it should work, but how the world really works.  then he's resolved to make the changes he sees as necessary.

this is not your typical politician.  i'd be loathe to throw him into the politician class, except he's running for elected office.  by definition, he's a politician.  which brings me back to the rudman observation.  most voters don't have a clue about how effective their elected representatives are in the bodies they serve unless they are in the leadership of those bodies.  dennis hastert was obviously effective -- whether you like him or not, he knew what he wanted to do in congress and how to do it.  generally, voters have no way to tell whether the people they elect will be effective in achieving the goals they have set for themselves.

except for foster.  listening to foster may be a little laborious simply because he's not your typical politician.  he deconstructs every question and then talks about the range of policy possibilities.  "i can be found there," at this point in this range, he tends to answer.  but when he is done, it is clear that he will be effective in congress.  you can see this not only because he understands all the possibilities, or even the people involved.  he gives you a sense that he understands all the implications, as well.  there is no risk in moving from a dennis hastert to a bill foster.  foster will be equally effective in doing what he wants to do.  this, perhaps more than anything else, explains why the pro-choice movement is supporting bill foster over other candidates who may have felt entitled to their support.  foster offers the possibility of more than a vote, but an effective advocate in congress for the things he believes in.

so the question becomes -- even more so, since it is a greater possibility that foster will be successful in achieving his goals -- do we agree with the goals he has set out?  do we want our troops out of iraq (foster says that getting out of iraq is his first, second and third priority)?  do we want to tackle health care and global warming?  are we looking for solutions or talking points?

foster wouldn't commit to joining the progressive caucus, in part, no doubt, to the fury that's surrounded his desire to follow patrick murphy into the blue dog caucus.  but this is no conservative democrat we are talking about.  if i was surprised at all, it was foster's repeated insistence that the free market is not always fair and the inference that not only does government have a role in moderating the free market (or at least ameliorating the unfair results) but an almost naked demand that it do so.  foster certainly has respect for the marketplace, but he sees it clearly.  in that sense, it fits squarely into the progressive tradition within the democratic party.

afterward, we talked for another hour with foster's campaign manager.  in that time, we talked about the "national id card" that has been identified with foster in his discussion of immigration reform.  two good points came out of that: first, foster didn't call for the creation of a national id card, that was the way his deconstructing of the matter was portrayed by his opponents.  we made it very clear that some of us had legitimate concerns about the possibility of a national id card.  we are not that america.  the second point was that foster sees this whole debate about immigration through the eyes of an employer.  some businesses are cheating, and their cheating encourages illegal immigration.  no one likes a cheater.

the final aspect of our conversation with foster that i think bears repeating is that the foster campaign has the potential for being competitive in the special election set one month away from the february 5th primary.  foster himself talked about the computer program he created for murphy's gotv effort -- one that murphy's field director credits with murphy's victory.  i'm personally a big believer in the ability to leverage new technology in campaigns and elections to win.  foster's campaign manager talked about the links they've made to fellow democrats in the chicagoland area who have people to loan during a special election as well as links to the people involved in the 6th cd campaign from 2006.  they've done the targeting and they know where their vote is.  they have the ability to microtarget groups and message them accordingly.  they will have the money to compete.

the implications here are enormous.  electing bill foster would be a triple slap at the bush administration.  you'd take a seat from a major apologist for invading iraq and give it to an effective advocate of removing our troops.  electing a physicist would send a message of disgust with the bush administration's jihad against science and the scientific method, restoring our commitment to objective science and accepting the real consensus in the scientific community (ie, that global warming is real, the result of human manipulation, and must be addressed immediately).  finally, in what is probably the last special election before november, it would give democrats the momentum going into the fall elections.

bill foster may not be your typical politician, but he's doing what it takes to win.  that demands respect.  but one should only support bill foster if you share his beliefs in getting out of iraq, solving our problems of health care and global warming, and looking for long-term solutions to our various problems.  as a physicist, foster would be more a process guy than an ideologue.  understanding how things work and solving problems are his currency in trade.  as a politician, he could use more work -- dumbing it down, even.  but there's no question this is someone who would be effective in congress.  the 14th has come to expect that.  foster steps into those expectations naturally...

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asdf (0.00 / 0)
good politicians know that voters are lazy (aka stupid).  they want quick, simple answers to their questions, answers that they can put up on the right self in their mental cupboard.  voters trust (for the most part) politicians to find the answers, they even hope that the answers politicians find are the right answers, but they don't necessarily want to know about the dirty work involved.  'just get it done,' is the message that uninformed voters send to the politicians they elect.  'we don't need to know how you do it,' is the undercurrent to that message.
This is a perfectly reasonable approach. This is why machine politics works. It's why people put money into mutual funds. Most people have a hard enough time becoming experts at the jobs they need to do to survive. Forget about the luxury of becoming an expert on all the politicians that are available for voting for.

So that explains part of our job. We are the people who are more than voters yet less than politicians. Progressive politicians want us to communicate more and better with voters whereas authoritarian ones don't. By definition. Progressive politicians see us as a critical medium between them and their voters. Progressive politicians want us to succeed. Just as we want them to succeed.

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how some ideology says it should work,

Long term planning is helped immensely by having a goal. Ideology is another word for goals.

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the second point was that foster sees this whole debate about immigration through the eyes of an employer.  some businesses are cheating, and their cheating encourages illegal immigration.  no one likes a cheater.

My personal two cents: The easiest way to eliminate crime is to make it legal. Anti-drug laws are the prime example. But immigration is an even easier one. The way to eliminate cheating is to create creative legal options.

The other progressive approach to immigration is another classic which is to look at the root of the problem. Just as the root of terrorism is how the U.S. is acting in the mideast, our actions in creating NAFTA and forcing rural Mexico to compete against subsidized agri-business is at the root of much immigration from Mexico.

Figuring out how to appeal to the emotions of voters around those issues is the hard part.

----------

foster's campaign manager talked about the links they've made to fellow democrats in the chicagoland area who have people to loan during a special election as well as links to the people involved in the 6th cd campaign from 2006.  they've done the targeting and they know where their vote is.  they have the ability to microtarget groups and message them accordingly.
Now the special election is coming into focus for me personally. It was sort of a haze that I did not want to deal with before. Just as Mark Pera was the clear choice of where to place our limited surplus energy in the days leading up to Feb 5, so now does it become clear that between Feb 5 and March 5 (whenever) exists another window of opportunity to focus our limited surplus energy.

One of my beliefs is that when these candidates call upon us or even entertain our requests for time, that they are making commitments to us. Commitments to take at least some of us seriously once elected and to consider what we say with some honesty. Don't get me wrong. I'm not expecting very much at all by that belief. The Peras and Fosters will not be Schakowskys once in office. Yet obviously they will be a lot closer than the Hasterts and Lipinskis.

It's a very small bond. But I believe it to be real. I'm almost saying that the means justify the ends. If not justify then certainly modify. When they, the Peras and Fosters, step slightly out of their comfort zones and engage us, the bloggers and DFAers, it behooves us to step slightly our of our own.

Nice post bn.

Jeff Wegerson


Nice post... (0.00 / 0)
The kind of post PSB should be full of...

Thanks.


Finally (0.00 / 0)
Finally a post that doesn't talk about why Foster is the only one who can compete financially, and presents a somewhat emotional argument for his support.

Now my next question: How is Foster going to overcome his lack of elevator pitch in his answers, and the ability of a good poltiical rival to take his thoughtful answers and twist them, take them out of context, or portray him as overly "intellectual" - you know that bad type of person no one wants to have a beer with? (see your third paragraph for my opinion on this).

People in systems more often than not function with a mob mentality and perfer bread and circuses to actual thought. How will Foster overcome this? How will he deal with a Republican who will mock his personality? The social stereotypes a hot wired in America for the "pick on the Geek" type of approach. How will Foster adapt to the reality that most voters are lazy and do not want to be educated (in their mind, talked down to)?

Nice post.


well... (0.00 / 0)
i'm not sure that foster is the "only one who can compete financially."  i'm a little disappointed in jotham stein's fund raising efforts, but i certainly wouldn't say that foster is the only one who can compete financially -- yet.  let's see if stein's numbers fall off, or laesch actually gets serious before we draw that conclusion.  foster is getting it done (and not just with his own money), and that's been acknowledged.  i don't see how anyone could not be disappointed with laesch, given the fact that he ran before, raised $300k and has a list of contributors ready to go.  stein is still a work in process, and he could go either way.

i don't know that foster will ever change his tone.  but my own experience on the hill suggests that he's not alone.  given that foster spent some time on the hill, he may think he doesn't have to.  now i would hope that he gets some communications direction and training, but the special election will be so short that i don't think it matters.

i wonder about the geek thing myself.  some physicists revel in that kind of designation.  others, like myself, are appalled.  i don't know where foster stands in that dichotomy.  i suspect that foster thinks that people do want to be educated.  i heartily agree with you that most voters don't (they tend to think they know enough, which is why message -- fitting the candidate within people's pre-conceived notions -- is so important).  as you observe, that can cut both ways...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009


[ Parent ]
Fundamental human flaw (4.00 / 1)
Thinking people are like yourself and share your values and your passions.

Education is a value, and seeking education for oneself is a passion. It is not universally shared in my opinion. In America we talk about the value of education, but what most are really talking about is not the education - the knowledge - but the benefits of education - the salary potential.

Students don't go to college by and large because they want to. They go because they know they need a degree to earn a decent living. Money is more often the motivator, not knowledge.

Common ground needs to be found emotionally. What is important to Foster about science? Why is he a scientist? Then the hard part - how does that relate to any voter in any occupation rather than set him apart from them? Foster has to understand that few are going to be like him and that's neither good nor bad. This thinking must lead to understanding intellectually that he can't win a race in a "me and you" approach. It has to be a "we". I'm not talking populism. I'm talking common ground and simple math.


[ Parent ]
you're dead on... (0.00 / 0)
in chaotic physics, we call that trait self-similarity.  self-similarity is an aberration in nature.  but it tends to be intuitive in humans, thinking that people all think like they do.  i have heard some people argue that, before the internet, there were ways to maintain a more homogeneous society.  regardless, michael, not everyone is so self-aware...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009

[ Parent ]
Thank God he's going up against Oberweis, (0.00 / 0)
That's not a guy you 'want to have a beer with'.

[ Parent ]
a couple issues with Bill Foster (0.00 / 0)
Just because Foster is smart and accomplished, it doesn't relieve him of the things politicians are expected to do.

Politicians are supposed to make people feel like they are on the audience's side. Politicians are supposed to make partisan audiences feel excited about winning.

Foster did poorly on both counts Saturday.

There's no reason Foster can't show up to a forum where people had to RSVP and know a little about the people he was talking to. There was like a half dozen people asking questions.

Also, I disagree with Foster's answer on net neutrality.

Foster says it's a no-brainer that telesurgery should get preferred bandwidth on the Internet.

I disagree.

Foster used the example of a doctor remotely holding a scalpel. Let's think this through.

The patient and an exceedingly expensive machine have to be in the same place.

Does Foster envision a medical system where the doctors all live in a few metro areas and the rest of the world goes to get surgery by remotely controlled robots?

And manipulating the tools of surgery should be done locally.

I will spare you the long version of the story about an old Japanese woman that schooled me on fine motor skills associated with folding paper.

There are surgeons with fine motor skills around the world. And to the extent technology allows us to reduce the number of surgeons by relying on fewer and fewer surgeons with narrower and narrowed specialties, this is a bad thing.

So, on the net neutrality question, it seems to me that Foster is looking for complexity and nuance that it unnecessary. The world operates just fine with net neutrality being the norm.

The issue may allow Foster to show off that he's technically very smart, but I didn't find his argument persuasive when I thought about it.


My point made manifest ala Carl (0.00 / 0)
In my experience, Carl is pretty smart, and also pretty passionate. He gets that Foster is smart, and a potentially good Congressman. He was turned off emotionally. The comment above is completely based on emotion (not trying to pick on you Carl, honest!).

Now let's remember: Carl is open to Foster. Carl traveled on a Saturday to speak with Foster. Carl is very supportive of Democrats. Carl is the type of person who Foster wants on his side.

Foster didn't close the deal on what should have been an easy sale because the pitch lacked an emotional attachment.

This concerns me, and I point this out here not to bash Foster, but to point out that I agree with everything bored has written in the post and yet still think Foster has a fundamental weakness that he needs to address or the GOP, in a GOP leaning district, in an American where it is not cool to be smart and geeks are targets of derision, will get his campaign handed to him even though he'll probably be the much better choice in the race.


[ Parent ]
well, i don't know how open carl is... (0.00 / 0)
but i could be wrong.  i could be wrong, but i get the idea carl supports john laesch...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009

[ Parent ]
Laesch vs. Foster (0.00 / 0)
I think John Laesch has been treated unfairly. But accumulating wrongs doesn't get one elected to Congress.

Foster is probably the better candidate.

However, Foster has got to get better at politicking on the campaign trail. Claiming he's so smart and qualified isn't going to finesse this.


[ Parent ]
you haven't thought it through enough... (0.00 / 0)
the whole point of using the internet to permit remote supervision and guidance of rare surgical procedures is to allow non-urban hospitals access to the same kind of expertise that major urban hospitals have.  i have no idea why you imagine robots would be involved.

now you may disagree with spreading that expertise more thoroughly through the medical system, but this is being considered as one of the solutions to some of the economic issues we have in our health care system.  i personally think the impact of technology will be less than is hoped for, but foster is closer to what i think will happen than you are here...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009


[ Parent ]
net neutrality until irrefutable need to change (0.00 / 0)
I'm worried that Foster's vision for health care is just high-tech outsourcing of surgical procedures.

I think you're ignoring how technology has worked to think that telemedicine will diffuse knowledge. I think it's far more likely to concentrate medical knowledge in fewer locations.

I don't think Foster's vision is good medicine or good economics.

I think net neutrality should be the standard until there is an irrefutable need to ditch net neutrality.

What Foster presented was a theoretical, not an irrefutable need.


[ Parent ]
Yes, and.... (0.00 / 0)
...Foster's scenario assumes that if we give up on net neutrality, then the decisions as to which transmissions get precedence would be made fairly according to who had the most pressing need. Does anybody believe it would work like that in practice? More likely it would be like our current health care system, with priority going to whoever is willing and able to pay for it.

In general, the problem with Foster's approach (IMO) is that politics isn't just another technical problem, because people involved don't agree on what solving the problem means. To use the health care example again, to me, solving the problem would mean instituting a system where everybody (meaning absolutely everybody in our country, regardless of immigration status or whatever else) could get all necessary care, with total cost at a minimum and spread out so that most of the costs are borne by those best able to pay. That's no doubt different than what George W. Bush, or the CEO of Aetna, or your average redneck would consider a solution to the problem.

"In order for somebody to win an important, major fight 100 years hence, a lot of other people have got to be willing -- for the sheer fun and joy of it -- to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose." -- I.F. Stone


[ Parent ]
this isn't a proposal... (0.00 / 0)
this is happening.  both u of c hospital and the mayo clinic are working on this (i'm sure there are others).  i got stuff to do, so i'm not going to detail it, but i believe that there's even been popular media coverage of this trend...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009

[ Parent ]
who is going to care (0.00 / 0)
about net neutrality it is not an issue people are going to vote on. This group of people might care about the significance but in general the public does not understand how it will affect them and will not sit still to listen. And they certainly are not going to vote for a guy who thinks he is better then them, and tells them this. Voting is emotional and how someone feels about the candidate is important just because he is smart does not mean they will vote for him, 50% of the population voted for Bush.  

[ Parent ]
Two topics (0.00 / 0)
Net neutrality:

The gamers and download video addicts are going to demand -- and get -- the fastest transmission technologically achievable. You and I both know that. If we want net neutrality, we're going to have to build a net that can move everything at the speed gamers want. I'm sure you have seen those e-mails from the Communications Workers of America saying we should do exactly that. But my question is, why should I be required to pay for internet speed I'll never use? What do I owe the CWA? And what about those people at the lower margin who may be priced out of internet access altogether?

You may not consider this an irrefutable argument, but you haven't presented the refutation. You need to do so.

(Note on political communications: People will always think of issues in terms of their own situation. And pocketbook issues are important.)

Telemedicine:

The aspect of telemedicine that seems best established, and that I'm most familiar with, is teleradiology. That doesn't require extra-high-speed internet access, of course, so we're out of net neutrality here. We're just talking telemedicine.

Some teleradiology comes from small rural hospitals that simply don't have enough X-rays, MRIs, CAT scans to keep a full-time radiologist busy. But there's also the point that US radiologists hate to be pulled out of bed in the middle of the night to read an emergency image. So the image gets sent to an Indian radiologist who can read it during his normal working hours. The image gets read and the patient treated faster, the US radiologist gets a good nights sleep, and the Indian radiologists gets a bit of extra money. Win, win, win.

But that's not the central point. The central point is that you're pretty explicitly calling for a major increase in the US supply of physicians. Just at a time when we're already looking at a fairly serious doctor shortage a dozen or so years down the road. Yes, we can ramp up a crash program to train more doctors, just as we did in the 1960s anad 1970s when we trained today's crop of soon-to-be-retirees. But you need to address the practicalities of this crash program to convince people you're on the right track.

P. S. Telesurgery isn't actually all that new. When I was training as an army medic, almost a half-century ago, we heard about how our navy equivalents on small ships sometimes had to do emergency surgery under the radio guidance of a surgeon a thousand miles away. It would have been better, of course, if the surgeon could have actually seen what the corpsman was doing.

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


[ Parent ]
An analogy... (0.00 / 0)
...on the net neutrality business.

I live on a narrow street, about three cars wide, with an even narrow driveway (a little more than one car wide) leading up to my garage. The local businesses are generally on streets that are maybe three times as wide as mine, with much bigger driveways and parking facilities than mine, and some of these (like the Yorktown mall, or the local Wal-Mart) are significantly bigger than others. Those with the bigger driveways will, of course, have to pay higher fees to maintain them.

So there's no neutrality there, and nobody is suggesting that there should be. But my house is connected to these shops and everything else by a common infrastructure of roads. And we do have road neutrality, in the sense that everyone has equal access to those roads and the rules (how fast you're allowed to go and such) are the same for everyone. And yeah, I have to pay for these roads through my driver's license and car tag taxes, even ones I don't drive on, but pretty much everybody apart from some hard-core Randians believe that this is a better system than any known alternative.

Now let's take one of those roads, Interstate 290, for example, and let's imagine that our elected officials have been irresponsible enough to let this road get bought out by a private company which happens to be the same one that owns Wal-Mart. Let's say that Wal-Mart then set up special express lanes reserved for their own shipping trucks and for individuals who've contracted to buy all of their household goods exclusively at Wal-Mart. Does anyone think that it would be a good idea to let them do this?

"In order for somebody to win an important, major fight 100 years hence, a lot of other people have got to be willing -- for the sheer fun and joy of it -- to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose." -- I.F. Stone


[ Parent ]
Don't understand analogy (0.00 / 0)
It probably doesn't help that you're talking about infrastructure that's government owned and maintained rather than something that's privately owned to begin with. A better analogy would be the Skyway, which is now privately owned anad supported by user fees (tolls). What we're talking about is the regulations governing these private businesses. But that's probably not essential to your argument.

But in fact the State of Illinois does not embrace road neutrality in the sense of having all triffic move at the same speed. You may not have noticed, but on rural interstates automobiles are allowed to travel at 65 mph while trucks can only go 55. So from that perspective the analogy argues against what I take to be your position.

But what I really don't understand is this business about express lanes specifically for the owner's customers -- to bring it back to the internet, customers of AT&T or Verizon or Sprint. Assuming that's technically feasible (not sure), I'm pretty sure that would be a violation of antitrust laws aside from the regulations we would expect to be in place.

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


[ Parent ]
Hooray, "scientist" is way better than "businessman" (0.00 / 0)

Hooray, you've gotten off of Bill Foster, Businessman.  Oberweis would milk that

Anticipating victory in the primary, the Oberweis herd and representatives of the powerful cow lobby, Mooooo-ve.on.org, wait just over the hill, prepared to stampede the Democratic candidate.  The hope in the milking barns is that it will be Foster.  The campaign advisers say that Jim can't wait to get his hands on Foster.  This amuses the Jerseys and the Holsteins.  They know Jim hasn't used his hands in years.  But they agree with the suits, who think that Foster has a big weakness.  Everyone thinks so except the know-it-all Bossie, who thinks Foster is probably a genius.

"No way Foster can be a businessman, Bossie," the herd tells her.  "He's even said 'I was a businessman before I was a scientist.'  He was at Harvard for years getting his PhD in physics, and then at Fermilab for pretty close to a quarter of a century.  No way he was running a business in Wisconsin.  Cashing dividend checks maybe, a board meeting every once in a while.  But running a business..... no way," the herd said.  "Way," the know-it-all Bossie responded.  It has to do with physics.  And then Bossie launched into the lay-cow's explanation of quantum mechanics.

"What do you think they do at the Fermilab anyhow?  They have a particle accelerator.  They work in the sub-microscopic realm of fundamental particles, where things behave with total disregard to our experience and with total disregard to what we consider to be common sense.  Fundamental particles can be waves and particles at the same time.  They can behave consistently although they are not connected and are separated by great distance.  And, most important for the election in IL-14, they show signs of being able to be in two places at once.  Up until now, these characteristics have only been demonstrated with the tiniest building blocks of the universe, but Foster may have cracked the code.  Maybe while laboring to achieve his PhD. at Harvard in Massachusetts, and then while spending nearly a quarter of a century toiling at the Tevatron, Fermilab's particle accelerator right here in the district, Dr. Foster, the businessman-scientist, was also hard at work building a successful stage lighting business somewhere in Wisconsin.  It's possible," Bossie concluded.  "It isn't", the herd answered, "and the Milkman is going to call him on it."  "Karl Malone?" the sports fan cow asked.  The herd ignored her.  "Milkman" was their nickname for Jim Oberweis.

In the small office inside the barn the advisors and the representatives of Mooooo-on.org were gathered.  "Foster is the greatest gift we could ever hope for," one of the advisors said.  "Jim is the real deal, the genuine self-interested American businessman.  Foster is a poseur, a businessboy at best, a nineteen-year-old with a five hundred dollar loan from mom and pop".  Everyone in the room knew Foster's story.  They were paid to know.  They couldn't wait for the general election. "Let it be Foster," they were thinking, well almost all of them were thinking that, but one was not so sure.  "Rope a Dope."  He said.  The others asked for an explanation.

"OK, picture this.  We run an ad on TV.  Obie says "You're a businessman?  Why there's no way.  I'm the real deal, I'm a businessman.  I got farms, I got stores, I got mutual funds.  You got dividend checks and a chance to go to the Christmas party.  You never even lived in the same state."  And then Obie lifts off in his spaceship, the one he flew over Soldier's Field, and gets higher and higher until, on the earth below, you can see Harvard, the Massachusetts one, and the 14th congressional district of Illinois and Madison, Wisconsin, and each place lights up while the voiceover announcer says "You were here, and you were there, but you never really went to work here, now did you Bill?  We'll get that Randy Newman song, 'Big Hat, No Cattle" to play in the background."

"I love that, but it was a helicopter, not a spaceship.  Jim doesn't have a spaceship." an advisor said.  "Yet", another chimed in and then asked "But why is that rope-a-dope?"

"Because in the 2008 campaign being a businessman is actually a liability.  We're trying to figure out how we can make Oberweis into a scientist, some kind of latter day Louis Pasteur.  George W. Bush calls himself the first MBA president.  Cheney stepped down as Chairman of Halliburton to become Vice President.  Checked their approval ratings recently?  And just look at the headlines.  Gordon Gekko is back.  The public doesn't admire businessmen.  They think they're all on the con.  What's our forecast...... economy on the slide, the sub-prime mess more of a scandal that Enron, houses going under the auction hammer like it is the Great Depression all over again, the highest disparity between worker and management wages in the last hundred years, jobs being sent overseas to factories that employ children, that turn out unsafe products to sell back here at home.  Corporations heading offshore to avoid taxes.  Pension plans getting shut down.  Health plans getting shut down.  And this is all happening on the watch of businessmen."

"Sure, we know all that, but what about rope-a-dope?"

"OK, Obie hits Foster hard on this businessman thing, spends a kazillion reinforcing the message - on a horse, surrounded by the biggest herd of Holstein-Friesians that anyone has ever seen.  Maybe a vast factory, a bottle filling operation, or the helicopter above a Soldier's Field filled with senior citizens and the message - Without Jim's milk these people would all have osteoporosis.  The whole message is big business, big business, big business.  And then Foster concedes the ground, admits Oberweis is the genuine article and then asks the voters why in the world they would want to send another businessman to Washington.  Rope-a-Dope."

Another advisor, older, said "It isn't going to happen that way.  Foster's bought some pretty good talent to create his image.  They know the businessman message is weak, probably inherited it.  They know they are vulnerable on it.  They know that getting caught padding a resume will kill their campaign.  They know the public isn't stupid.  They'll go with scientist, maybe 'concerned citizen',  We'll be pulling the businessman signs out of their trash cans within days."


Beautiful! And right on. (0.00 / 0)
Although, as a full-time telecommuter myself, I'm a bit more aware than the people at Mooo-on.org of how much you can do by telecommuting. Still the point remains that Foster is a scientist first and a businessman second in the same way that I'm a writer first and a scientist second.

But don't get so impatient for responses. Thanks to the pressure of W-O-R-K, I didn't even see this comment until this morning. And you know why I couldn't respond then.

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


[ Parent ]
voters are not stupid (0.00 / 0)
this has been eating at me all day.  i couldnt be a progressive if i believed that.  that idea makes sense for the authoritarian type of conservative, but theyre not big on democracy anyway.  i guess it does fit in with your overton window idea tho.

William J Maggos

I agree. bn is purposely using the provacative stupid (0.00 / 0)
word/frame here. Voters vote on trust. Much of that trust is built emotionally rather than rationally. Yes authoritarians have been winning by building on fear emotions and the greed emotions. But now people are becoming afraid of them.

Machine voters (both urban and religious) trust their respective machines. TV voters trust the results promised and mostly delivered by the authoritarians. But there is a time gap between promises and failure to deliver. That gap has become overrun and now people are beginning to distrust them and ready to either sit out an election or "swing."

But becoming well informed (i.e. smart by bn's definition) is not really an option. They generally have neither the time nor resources to become "smart" and well informed.  You cannot become smart by listening to current machines or TV/Radio sources.  It takes time to find better information and it takes skills that generally are not readily at hand for most voters.

Jeff Wegerson


[ Parent ]
hmm... (0.00 / 0)
as i said, voters are lazy.  this also means that voters are busy, that they don't have the time.  they won't do the work to stay informed on their government or the candidates who present themselves on the ballot.  calling voters lazy, though, doesn't help anyone.  if you think in those terms, you end up banging your head against the wall.  the political activists' idealism of what voters should do will continue to dominate their thinking.

calling voters stupid, as shorthand for the fact that they are lazy and/or busy, forces campaigns AND VOLUNTEERS into the kind of action required to influence electoral outcomes.  campaigns AND VOLUNTEERS have to spell it out for voters.  they have to convey their message consistently, uniformly and coherently in order for it to break through the purple haze that is the typical voter's mind (in the area of politics).

i do call voters stupid in an intentionally provocative manner.  it took me a few years to realize the effect that voter attitudes had on message and influencing their votes.  everyone remembers when you say, voters are stupid.  i don't know if this offends progressive sensibilities or not.  i wouldn't care.  what i care about is winning elections.

the voters are stupid meme forces campaigns AND VOLUNTEERS to be their (the voters) trusted source and to surrender the diametrically opposed meme that if voters are just presented the right information (in your heart, your know he's right), they will make the right voting decision.  they won't.  voters consistently prefer the message that makes sense to them, that fits into their pre-conceived notions, that feels comfortable with what they already think.  but i think you have a good handle on it, jeff...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009


[ Parent ]
Thanks. Coming from you that's a real (0.00 / 0)
compliment.
calling voters stupid, as shorthand for the fact that they are lazy and/or busy, forces campaigns AND VOLUNTEERS into the kind of action required to influence electoral outcomes.  campaigns AND VOLUNTEERS have to spell it out for voters.  they have to convey their message consistently, uniformly and coherently in order for it to break through the purple haze that is the typical voter's mind (in the area of politics).
Right. Our machine needs to replace their machine and TV. And not just campaign organizations but meta-campaign organizations like DFA.

Jeff Wegerson

[ Parent ]
the stupid voter frame has unintended consequences also (0.00 / 0)
i get why you use that language, but in an effort to not just win elections but also build a movement and inspire action, im not big on stupid as shorthand for lazy/busy.  i get that its bigger than lazy/busy and stupid makes the impact youre looking for.  but just like "tax relief", if it sticks in your head, it may begin to cloud your thinking.  

William J Maggos

[ Parent ]
That's why Illinois needs Progressive Tax Relief. (0.00 / 0)
Time for the wealthy to begin paying their fair share.

So what word(s) might you suggest that would serve bns purpose of impressing upon volunteers and campaigns the importance and difficulty of establishing sufficient bond with the voters for the voters to ally themselves with progressive candidates and goals?  

Jeff Wegerson


[ Parent ]
Good comment Clairity, provocative, clever (0.00 / 0)
Well isn't this sad, I give you Oberweis, spaceships, cows that talk, dairy cows that say "Jim doesn't use his hands"! I don't even get an "udderly ridiculous" back? Silence, no response to my point that positioning gentle Bill as a businessman is dumb? Four in the morning, I have to write myself a favorable comment (is this even legal? forgive me if it isn't, I'm new at this).  I'll guess it is either a sign of complete acquiescence or maybe a scene from a mall, where a mom is trying to tell a fouryear-old something, and the four-year-old has his eyes scrinched (no dictionaries, I made it up)shut, his fingers in his ears, a loud sound, shrill, coming from his mouth, a sing-song sort of sound, to keep mom's good advice from getting through.  

i loved your comment... (0.00 / 0)
i won't pretend i understood it all, but it made me chuckle.  would could i have said?  lol???  pretty darn clever, though...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009

[ Parent ]
Field-stripping the candidate (0.00 / 0)
After my fictional "Foster as businessman" piece I looked at your comment more carefully.  You make solid points about the nature of the electorate (you've certainly taken some heat for some things you didn't really say) but then you seem to contradict yourself when you appear to speak derisively about clarity - "There is no 'I have a five point plan' silliness."  But you'll agree, I think, that it is a sound bite time, and we have to work with our candidates to make certain that they understand that. Kerry talked "nuances" and it didn't work for him.

Then I asked myself "Could you do it?"  So I've given it a try, where Clairity stands, thinking that it might be useful in the ongoing dialog. Here goes:

1. Not this war, no pre-emptive war, no war without Congress, no never-ending war against an ill-defined enemy, no Rambo Nation, no Jack Bauer Nation.  We stand for something.
2. Defend the Constitution, protect the separation of powers, no packing the courts with ideologues, no selling House and Senate seats to the highest bidders (political parties take note)
3. No empire, no troops around the world, not Germany sixty years after the fight nor Korea fifty years later.  No shirking humanitarian responsibilities, but shoulder this burden with allies.
4. Get out the vote.  Involve everyone in the political process.
5. Fiscal responsibility is not just budget cutting.  Surpluses in times of plenty, deficits in times of need.  Keynes lives.  Government can be a force for good. "Trickle down" is a lie.
6. Close the widening income gap.  Too much income inequality is a very bad thing for the future of the country.
7. No government in reproductive rights.  Cut back on abortions through education
8. Defend Darwin and the light of science that he represents.  Do not let the Enlightenment go dark.
9. We cannot have open borders, but still we must find the humanitarian way to deal with the people who are here.  Sending them back is not that way.
10. Dragging the debate to the center requires partisans on the left.  We cannot be the ones called upon to compromise. ("Blue Dog Democrats take note)    

I've been thinking about Gerrymandering and Prairie State Blue and other similar political blogs.  Some of us find ourselves in districts where the battle has been won and the seat has been made safe by gerrymandering (which I oppose really).  Before things like Prairie State Blue we were out of the game beyond the check writing part.  Now we can toss thoughts into the process.  We can "field strip" the candidates early, help hone the message, help take IL-14, and AZ-1, CA-4 and NC-8, OH-15 and PA-06, NM-1 and MN-1 from Republican hands.

I find myself a bit overbearing sometimes, a bit strident, maybe too partisan, but I am a Democrat, and when this primary season is over that is all that will matter.    


[ Parent ]
A nit and two comments (0.00 / 0)
Nit: Keynesian fiscal policy won't work in the US because it can't be implemented as intended. In the nature of things, the stimulus always comes two years too late. Just as we need to start thinking about restraint. Monetary policy is the only thing that can be applied fast enough to be effective. And even so, a lot of people think the Fed is always six months behind the curve.

None of this has anything to do with either tax cuts of fiscal responsibility, of course.

Comment 1: Have you noticed that the Libertarian Party would agree with about 9 of your 10 points? And I'm not sure they would actually disagree with number 6, although they would find it difficult to implement without violating their other principles.

Comment 2: I get the impression you have been gerrymandered into a safely Republican district. Like many of the people here, I've been gerrymandered into a safely Democratic district. Danny Davis does not need any help from me. So I work in nearby districts.

Maybe you're further away from other district than I am. You don't feel you can get there. But remember what I said about telecommuting?

(At the same time, the way people from different areas keep each other informed of what is going on is indeed a major strength of this blog.)

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


[ Parent ]
I'm feeling far afield (0.00 / 0)
Thanks for your comment, although I'm afraid I've taken this thread pretty far off its intended path.  I'll be brief.

The General Theory posited management of interest tates and government investment in infrastructure, although Keynes is mostly remembered for the latter.  I brought him up as a shorthand for surplus in times of plenty, deficits in a slack time for the economy.  The challenge is understanding the position of the economy - you can't remedy a situation you don't know to exist.  A second challenge is that overspending can be very habit-forming.  Mostly, I wanted to say that a blind reverence for tax cuts isn't the answer.

Libertarian?  Sure, regarding reverence for the Constitution and against tyranny of the majority, in favor of keeping keeping courts fair, civil liberties, but maybe not in regard to humanitarian assistance in concert with allies, maybe not in regard to getting out the vote - the currently institutionally disenfranchised are unlikely to be latent libertarians, and certainly not in regard to the government as a force for good, and this is a big difference.  We would find no common ground in workplace protection issues, nor in regard to government action to ameliorate inequality in income distribution and, referring back to the first paragraph, I'm fine with the Federal Reserve.

We took down a hateful Republican in my district, replaced him with a pretty good liberal - I was a dorbell ringer and envelope stuffer. Then we re-districted and created a safe seat.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment.


[ Parent ]
I guess it was too much for me to swallow (0.00 / 0)
all at once. I looked at the big gallon-sized post; the size of a many dairies people here write; then I saw a writer's name with whom I wasn't very familiar so I then began to skim the comment; looking for the cream, I guess. Then too you might be an acquired taste. (etc, etc.)

Which is to say I saw a new poster's big comment and gave it a quick once over. But I'm glad you spoke up. You clearly had spent some time and thought on your comment and I actually was concerned that you might not get a comparable response.

FYI I don't know if you are aware but there is a feature with this software that allows nesting of replies to comments directly beneath them. The link that says Reply is for directly replying to a particular comment at any time whereas the link that says comment is for new comments to the article.

Jeff Wegerson


[ Parent ]
Problem (0.00 / 0)
When I attmp to post to this thread response to typing is slow or absent. No problem outside PSBB

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


bummer... (0.00 / 0)
i hope it's not the video...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009

[ Parent ]
It probably is. (0.00 / 0)
Multimedia can eat up a lot of memory and CPU.

Bill, if you're using FireFox, download and install the Flashblock add-on. That'll cause the browser to not load videos until you click on them.

"In order for somebody to win an important, major fight 100 years hence, a lot of other people have got to be willing -- for the sheer fun and joy of it -- to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose." -- I.F. Stone


[ Parent ]
So I disabled Active-X control (0.00 / 0)
and things work. But constantly enabling and disabling Active-X isn't as convenient as what you describe.

Really, though, thanks loads.

Bill Thomasson

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


[ Parent ]
finally getting around to watching the video (0.00 / 0)
Foster said Hastert might have been the right guy for the district years ago, and then commented on how new people are moving in.  Sorry Bill, but this is the same kind of thinking that dooms our party.  This idea that our values arent right for certain areas of the country, or that you have little chance in a race if you dont match the polling of the area.  Progressive and Leadership are both terms that put you out of the 'mainstream', cause they mean you are trying to make change.  What does that say to the folks who have been trying to replace Hastert all these years?

good point Carl!

great point Bill about conservatives agreeing with us on America in 100 years.

open that GOTV software, woohoo!

I like the Paul Simon comment and understanding that you will disagree with any and every caucus.

William J Maggos


I disagre... (0.00 / 0)
One need only find and analyze the voting treds of Kane, Will and DuPage Counties to see the impact of migration on voting trends. Those Counties continue to become more blue with each passing election...see for yourself with a little research and digging.  

I do not think you can accuse Laesch of running on anything other than progressive themes in 2006...which of course is one reason he got only 37% of the vote at the height of Hastert's problems.


[ Parent ]
I think William's point is... (0.00 / 0)
...Hastert was never the right guy for the district. Even if a majority of the voting public had been bullshitted into thinking that what he did was good for them, it wasn't really.

"In order for somebody to win an important, major fight 100 years hence, a lot of other people have got to be willing -- for the sheer fun and joy of it -- to go right ahead and fight, knowing you're going to lose." -- I.F. Stone

[ Parent ]
even if you (the candidate) believe that's true... (0.00 / 0)
it would be stupid to say so.  one assumes that mr foster intends to win this thing; telling voters that they were wrong for voting for hastert is considered bad form.  what we can tell by foster's comments is that he's not stupid...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009

[ Parent ]
instead (0.00 / 0)
he was telling those who have opposed Hastert for so many years that they were wrong.  talk about supporting the Democratic ground game.  and while i guess hes not stupid, it also looks like he isnt too upset about the way Hastert has represented the district for so long.  that really makes me wanna go knock on doors for him in this cold.

rob, yes, Gary did a great job of translating my gobledeguk.  Laesch should run on whatever he believes in, as should Foster and Stein.  what else can you do?

William J Maggos


[ Parent ]
I don't see it that way (0.00 / 0)
When I moved into my current house in 1971, it was in IL-06. If somebody said Henry Hyde was the right Congressman for the district when he was first elected, I wouldn't agrue with them. But I never thought he was the right Congressman for me or for Oak Park, which is why I was glad when Oak Park was transferred to IL-07 after the 1980 census.

I've never lived in Hastert's district, though, so I can't speack for the people who do.

Bill Thomasson

Bill Thomasson

Permission to reprint explicitly granted


[ Parent ]
Hastert the right guy? (0.00 / 0)
All I know is that he won a whole lot of elections and was never defeated, not even a close call.  He was not the right guy for me, but I share this district with many, many people who feel otherwise...and they aren't stupid either.

Foster's statement upon Hastert's announcement that he would quit impressed me because it was very good form. Dancing on the man's political legacy/grave would be seen as sour grapes.  It was classy and mature.

While there is little doubt that this district is turning bluer by the day, the fact remains that our purple electorate still has more red than blue in the mixture.


eh... (0.00 / 0)
william's comment isn't based on facts.  foster actually filed to run for the seat before hastert retired.  if you look at his volunteering with patrick murphy as an attempt to position himself (or gain experience) to run for this seat, then held by hastert -- which i do -- then it's clear to even the most casual thinker that foster was running for this seat in 2008, hastert or not.

william's problem is with me, not foster.  foster was being kind by his comments -- polite, as it were.  what is important in his comments is that foster is trying to win the votes of people who once voted for hastert, which is smart.  the need to alienate those voters, as william recommends and laesch does, in order to soothe the voters who voted against hastert, is simply illogical.  one assumes that most anti-hastert voters are rational, that they understand they were in the minority, and they realize that they need hastert voters to turn the seat blue.  this is a blunt political calculation that william and laesch don't want to make.  it is a blunt political calculation that one must make if one wants to win.

winning is based on sacrifices.  if the sensitivity of a few people who need revenge (we were right about hastert all along!) must be sacrificed in order to make the il-14 democratic, so be it.  voters, for the most part, don't care a wit about this little ideological battles.  they don't see their needs defined by ideology, but solved by practicality.  to me, you never tell a voter they were wrong in the past.  that's what foster is doing.  trying to twist that into a dichotomy (that not telling one side they were right to vote for foster means telling the other side they were wrong to vote against him) is not only tortured logic, it's emotional.  i'll concede that there might be a handful who share william's response.  if they can't see that being kind to non-democrats is good politics in these kind of districts, then oh well...

"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009


[ Parent ]
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